Why NU isn’t as great as you think — but not as bad as you fear
Last year, 67.3 percent of the students accepted to Northwestern’s undergraduate program turned down the offer for other schools. While many of the students had practical reasons for doing so (i.e. financial issues), a great many of them also turned down NU for “better” schools with bigger names.
It’s the harsh reality: We are a second-choice school to most Ivies. And, honestly, that’s what we deserve to be. There are reasons why schools like Harvard, Yale and Princeton are all better-known and more well-respected than we are. After all, our acceptance rate is 26 percent – about 15 percent more than most Ivies.
Harvard’s list of notable alumni for its law school alone is about as long as Northwestern’s list for its entire undergraduate and all of its graduate schools combined. And these schools have more than triple the money we have because their alumni make and donate more back to the school than ours do (compare Princeton’s 60 percent alumni giving rate donating graduates to NU’s 29 percent.) Northwesterners just haven’t built the same legacy for their school as these other students and alumni have.
Our ratings also aren’t nearly as impressive as theirs. We’re ranked 14th in the nation by U.S. News & World Report, well behind Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford, the top four. And U.S. News was being nice: We’re 42nd on the list for Washington Monthly.
Yes, NU certainly isn’t anywhere close to No. 1 in the country, and it probably won’t be any time soon. Contrary to what the administration says, the recent surge of freshmen applicants, up 54 percent in the last three years, isn’t necessarily an indicator of a reputation boost. It’s probably actually more due to the switch to the Common Application and the growing trend among high school seniors to apply to ten or more schools at once than an improved reputation.
And we aren’t the only ones experiencing an application surge. Compare Northwestern’s 12 percent increase in freshman apps in the past year to Appalachian State’s 25 percent. Appalachian State. Ever heard of them? They have a football team.
Nevertheless, when I say NU is a second-choice school, I mean that it is second-choice to only the best colleges in the country. Northwestern may not be a household name, but nor are any of the more than 4,100 other schools in the country. In fact, of those thousands of colleges, Northwestern comes closer to matching the Ivys’ reputation as any. Northwestern might have 13 colleges before it on the U.S. News report, but there are also 116 that follow it. Despite Northwestern’s relatively low yield of admitted students compared to the top Ivies, it still has the 46th highest yield in the country. And although NU is 42nd in Washington Monthly’s survey, the school that follows us is Princeton.
When you look at the big picture, NU’s reputation is fine. If you’re denied a job after college, it won’t be because you didn’t go to a prestigious enough university.
| Print
But are we really a second-choice school? Or you can return home.
“When you look at the big picture, NU’s reputation is fine. If you’re denied a job after college, it won’t be because you didn’t go to a prestigious enough university.”
Then what’s the point of this article? The problem here seems to be that uptight & over privileged students seem to think that they’re being slighted by not going to a top 10 school. Why does a school’s reputation so much to you?
Jeremy
March 3, 2008 at 1:46 am
Frankly I am troubled by how poorly written your commentary is. It may not be fair to judge someone based on a single writing sample but you certainly appear to be a status-starved lightweight. Perhaps you should thank your lucky stars that you even got into Northwestern instead of lamenting where it falls in academia’s pecking order. I mean, signing your name to such childish writing on the interweb stands a better chance of putting you in a negative light than a degree from Northwestern ever will.
shane
March 3, 2008 at 1:51 am
This article is a poor excuse for journalism. Do you even know what goes into the rankings? The fact that you site the Washington Monthly rankings at all proves you’re completely inept, as they’re more of a joke than this pathetic article. Why not cite the Times Higher Education Supplement rankings? Or the Academic Ranking of World Universities by Shanghai Jiao Tong University? Those are actually reputable. Not only that, but US News is notoriously useless in many ways- a major contributing factor to their ranking is prestige. A major factor in generating prestige, though, is the US News ranking. See a problem there? Comparing us to the HYPSM is stupid. They have tons more money and have been around a lot longer than us (for the most part).Far more interesting is looking at why a school like Brown, which, for all intents and purposes really shouldn’t be anywhere near where it is on the rankings, is perceived as “better” and more prestigious than NU (even though we’ve been ranked higher most of the time).
Or perhaps looking at comparing us to Duke, who also beats us out and is much more similar (and doesn’t have the Ivy League’s prestige to fall back on).
Do some research next time. Real research. You know, the kind they teach at those school’s that are “better” than us. And do some thinking too. Maybe there are other factors going into, or that should be going into, college choice than just rankings and prestige?
It’s hard to believe it, but this article is arguably worse than your last one in terms of actual research or well thought out arguments.
Ben R.
March 3, 2008 at 8:20 am
This article is actually a response to a previously written article on nbn about the subject. That’s my reason for writing it.
And Ben, while THES rankings are more grounded, they aren’t what most people read. Most people read US News and World and surveys like Washington Monthly and form their opinions from them about NU’s reputation.
If you don’t agree with me and you feel so strongly about it, instead of slandering my journalism skills, why don’t you write a well-thought-up response and send it to NBN for publishing?
Sunanda
March 3, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Bad journalism aside, this article is still pretty awful. I don’t really understand why you would cite a ranking list that disproves your entire article, but I’m no journalism major, so I’ll move on. Did you proofread your article before you sent it off to NBN? Not so much, it seems to me.
“Northwestern may not be a household name, BUT NOR are any of the more than 4,100 other schools in the country”
“In fact, of those thousands of colleges, Northwestern comes closer to matching the Ivys’ reputation AS any”
My opinion – and again, I’m not a journalism major so I could be completely off base here – is that if you’re gonna write a really crappy article whose sources are questionable, at least write it well. Or else you get assholes like me who point out your bad grammar after others have torn your argument apart.
Adam
March 3, 2008 at 4:52 pm
I submit that, academically, Northwestern is as good or better than most of the Ivies. Especially Harvard, which is notorious for having fantastically crappy teaching at the undergraduate level for how ridiculously overrated it is. None of the Ivies have the range that Northwestern has, from an excellent engineering school to one of the best Chem departments in the country to an outstanding theatre program to one of the best Econ departments in the world to one of the best Journalism schools in the world.
Who cares if we don’t have the same brand recognition because a bunch of pompous East coast publications see the midwest as nothing more than flyover country?
Farris
March 3, 2008 at 7:42 pm
“Northwestern may not be a household name, but nor are any of the more than 4,100 other schools in the country.”
It all depends where you come from. Growing up in the midwest with a mother from Chicago, Northwestern was definitely a household name.
Also, as a student from the bottom of the standard SAT range for accepted students, I’ve never seen NU as a second choice school. I’m proud to be here and brag about it as if I was at an ivy…let’s have some spirit here, we’re paying for it.
Lauren
March 3, 2008 at 8:17 pm
You know, stuff like this almost offends me. What is the Northwestern media’s obsession with self-loathing?
Jon
March 4, 2008 at 2:27 am
Self-loath yoself jon, you suck
Anonymous
March 4, 2008 at 11:15 am
Lauren, Northwestern is not a household name for people that grow up in normal parts of the country.
John
March 4, 2008 at 11:18 am
“Normal” parts of the country? What the hell is that supposed to mean?
David
March 4, 2008 at 11:27 am
Yes … 42nd on Washington Monthly, just ahead of Princeton, which got 43rd.
Adam
March 4, 2008 at 11:47 am
The comments to this article are just a few more reasons for me to be ashamed of Northwestern University. I think Ms. Katragadda’s intent in presenting the article (and the numbers) is simply to offer some perspective on the circus that is college ranking systems. What has not been discussed in the article, but has most certainly been alluded to, is that Northwestern (particularly the administration) has an obsession with prestige that causes its handlers (Bienen, Banis, Dessler, The Board) to over-inflate our reputation and status. That’s how we draw more applications, which brings in more money (by, for instance, increasing the class sizes as they did with 2010). Also, prestige effects how donors view a university. As President Bienen will readily admit to you, his primary job is to raise money for the University. This means that he lives and breathes B.S. about how great we are because it’s how he puts food on the table and a Lexus in the garage.
By and large as a group, however, you have chosen to ignore this point and others like it that Ms. Katragadda raises. Instead, you’ve chosen to attack her sources and grammar. There was real potential for discussion here–a real chance, if you will, to engage in intellectual debate about the purpose and viability of college ranking systems. Predictably, however, the Northwestern Student Body has chosen the low road. Given options, you chose to forgo any merit the article may yield and instead metamorphosed into the nitpicky, stubborn, and defensive academics that the regurgitation method of education has designed you to be. You are more than likely a student here because you found it to be the right mix of prestige and program, and because it accepted you. You’re here because you want the type of pre-professional education Northwestern offers, and you’re pleased by the concomitant prestige (and salary) you think you deserve. This means that you, too, have a vested interest in the prestige and brand recognition of this university. Somewhere, you are concerned with how your school ranks because it serves as a reflection on you, your choices, and your personal capital. It’s an ego thing. I won’t hold it against you because I know it’s not your fault: you’ve been trained to think and live in this model. “Success,” to quote Operation Ivy frontman Jesse Michaels, “is obedience to a structured way of life.”
If you find me brazen thus far, I’m not done. The attackers here demonstrate exactly what it is about the Northwestern ideology that is so unsettling: we are willing to overlook inconvenient arguments or discussions (particularly those which make us think) in order to get in our own parting shots. We, as a micro-culture, are the pathetic manifestation of the iGeneration; notoriously self-centered and apathetic, you’ll readily throw another student under the bus for personal gain. What’s happened to community and camaraderie? You have shamelessly attacked and picked apart a first-year columnist (and McCormick student, mind you) who has bravely chosen to publish her ideas under her full name and without compensation for her time. She is trying her best to connect and discuss her ideas with NU, and she’s willing to do so in a public format. Attacked by her readers, she did not hide, but tried to engage her critics in discussion. I applaud her for her courage and forthright approach. Last time I checked, NBN had an editorial staff. So, instead of going after her for trying to start dialogue, go after her editor/copy editor for missing grammatical errors.
And remember, assholes, the comment box is for discussion, not anonymous attacks on amateur journalists.
Nick Briggs
March 4, 2008 at 1:39 pm
thank you nick briggs
Allie Keller
March 4, 2008 at 1:52 pm
“If you don’t agree with me and you feel so strongly about it, instead of slandering my journalism skills, why don’t you write a well-thought-up response and send it to NBN for publishing?”
Nobody “slandered” your journalism skills.
I actually came across your piece quite randomly. It showed up in a google search related to my alma mater (a school mentioned in your commentary) and while I have no vested interest in submitting a rebuttal to your brain-droppings I was nonetheless offended for your fellow classmates. Your article was just a sad little exercise and the grammar as well as quality of thought behind it simply struck me as beneath a magnificent institution the likes of Northwestern.
From an outsider’s perspective the subtext is unmistakeably that attending Northwestern is a personal failure of some sort. And I was taken aback by what an immense insult that message is to your classmates, especially given the irony of the messenger’s apparent low-wattage.
shane
March 4, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Personal and grammatical attacks aside, I seem to have missed the point of this article. Was there one? Because I can’t seem to find it.
Natalie Southwick
March 4, 2008 at 6:55 pm
It’s too bad this article wasn’t more clearly-focused. With more thorough reporting, the writer could’ve formed some kind of valid argument (or even a consistent opinion) rather than flip-flopping from paragraph to paragraph.
From the moment I stepped on campus I heard all about the Ivy League chip on many students’ respective shoulders. I, personally, never encountered this issue. Maybe it’s because I applied early to a Medill to study something I’m truly passionate about. Maybe it’s because I’m from the Chicagoland area (i.e. the STRANGE part of the nation, as per John’s comment). Maybe it’s because Northwestern has been home to many people I respect. I don’t know what it is, but I know I’m not the only one who’s had a similar experience here at NU.
I think taking a closer look into what prestige means to students (and perhaps, what prestige means to undergraduates in comparison to graduates — does the reputation really hold up?) at NU and outside, would’ve meant for a more interesting piece.
Luanne
March 4, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Normal parts of the country are the West and East Coasts and Florida. The rest is just dumb flyover states. Chicago is a wasteland.
John
March 4, 2008 at 8:51 pm
HEY JOHN I don’t think a wasteland could invent DEEP DISH PIZZA
Genevieve Knapp
March 4, 2008 at 8:57 pm
ok, I get it John – you’re kidding.
And Florida? I’ll admit that The Panhandle is pretty baller but anything South of Gainesville is Neo-Disney, Orlando traaaash. Chaw on that.
…justkidding…
Luanne
March 4, 2008 at 9:02 pm
It’s true. I’m Neo-Disney, Orlando traaaash. My name is Lisa, and I am chawing on that.
Lisa Gartner
March 4, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I’m not kidding, I’m a state elitist.
John
March 4, 2008 at 9:18 pm
I just believe Northwestern is an outstanding well-rounded school. There’s no question about how the professors are the front runners in their fields. There’s no question that the students who attend NU are also brilliant was well; I’m pretty sure the majority of the NU students were the ones who set curves in the classes. From a prospective freshman’s perspective, YES rankings do matter, but it’s not everything. (And just to make it clear, rank 14 is pretty freakin’ amazing.) To see how one’s education would burgeon as he or she engages in activities with his or her peers is more important. I asked myself, “Is this school right for me?” I understand there are dorms that are for the theater people and on the other side of campus, there are students whose major is engineering. But at the end of the day, despite your major, I’m pretty sure you’re going to have friends, and others who share your interests.
Northwestern is my first choice for college; I was deterred from applying Early Decision because of my dad’s reluctance to send me far (I’m from NYC), and now I have to wait and agonize over if I’m going to get accepted or not. I totally regret not applying to NU. Reading about NU and the splendor of student activities is very appealing. I think I’d feel more comfortable in NU than any other ivy and I’d drop EVERYTHING to have the privilege to attend, even if it’s easier to get into nationally recognized ivy league schools.
Jenny
March 4, 2008 at 10:06 pm
in their* classes.
Jenny
March 4, 2008 at 10:07 pm
FUCK NORTHWESTERN! Let’s all transfer. MASS EXODUS!
Kate
March 4, 2008 at 10:07 pm
As a Northwestern student from Illinois, I have two recurring thoughts every time I go to class:
1. Gosh I’m just so ashamed to be attending such a second rate school.
2. I really wish I was from a normal part of the country.
Joey
March 4, 2008 at 10:11 pm
I would kill myself if I was from Illinois.
John
March 5, 2008 at 2:33 pm
The attacks here are embarrassing. I second Nick Brigg’s comment here.
Tony
March 5, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Thanks, Tony and Allie. There should be more Northwesterners like you.
Nick Briggs
March 9, 2008 at 5:11 pm